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Paying detectives more key to ending shortages, says Foundation

Old Skool Kind of Guy (03/11/21 @ 15:47)

can anyone update on how effective the direct entry DC schemes are - no flannel or soft soaping though.

NW-Bobby (03/11/21 @ 16:48)

CID in many forces do sod all anyway now. You've got main offices filled with 2-3 year service DCs and a DS with 5 years.

Anonymous (03/11/21 @ 17:36)

That'll help strengthen Response Teams.

retired brief (03/11/21 @ 18:14)

'I told you so' in a recent post on this site. Seems someone was listening to me?

A Nony Mouse (03/11/21 @ 20:51)

DCs don't need a pay increment to make up for missing out on OT as we work plenty of OT so whoever has suggested that is way off the mark or is misinformed about our roles. What we need is better or more numerous supervision, lower workloads, better training and development of DCs and more support from SMT. Paying us more is a short term reaction when a long term strategy is needed to bolster numbers.

Anon (03/11/21 @ 21:30)

This situation has been building for ten plus years. The huge cuts to policing made secondary investigation the poor relation as desperate Chief Officer teams realigned resources to 24/7 response. Detectives were de valued, stripped of resources, stripped of effective supervision and swamped with huge, complex workloads. Uniform officers saw this happening and as a consequence vowed not go anywhere near CID. The situation has got worse and worse, hence no uniform Cops want to pursue a career that was once looked up to and aspired to. Its not rocket science!

Proud SIO - (03/11/21 @ 22:12)

The Fed published a report in 2009 called losing the detectives so nothing new in any of this article. The government and ACPO/NPCC have been woefully neglectful in addressing an issue that has been long in the making. Better pay across the board in policing is required but in detective departments why would you take on a role that is going to mean long days, higher stress, personal liability for caseloads of job- losing potential for less pay than you can get on shift? Madness! The CID used to be something people aspired to do and aide to CID was a tough competition to get, now we can't get people to apply!

A nonny moose (04/11/21 @ 00:17)

Half the issue is the insane amount of paperwork that just isn't needed. Most needs to be done is slightly edited triplicate and CPS want way too much on their forms. You don't need a statement from the witnesses best friends dog! If it wasn't for the paperwork and it was streamlined PROPERLY I don't think the case load would be quite as unmanageable! Thats why I won't go anywhere near CID, its bad across the board but buck stops there and any paperwork missed along the way? Falls to a DC to fix!

Mike Speakman (04/11/21 @ 10:44)

Not sure this is a good idea. At one time I was involved in some research projects, one of which was "How to increase the status of the uniformed officer" Over the years the foot patrol, in particular, was seen as the bottom of the heap. They were the pool from which specialists were drawn. They were not seen as key workers. We now reap the product of that policy where they are almost extinct. The uniform bobby is the base on which all policing is founded. Paying detectives more is going to do further damage to the status of the uniform. The media portrayal of the police has reinforced the image that the detective is superior and more skilled. This is not my experience.

Life on Mars (04/11/21 @ 11:15)

A sensible report and long overdue. The role of the Detective is not unique, but over the years it has been undervalued. The Tom Winsor pay reforms meant that officers moving into a detective role had to pass and exam, undergo continuous assessment and complete an assessed PDP, work more days (there is little flexible working) and earn less - and at the same time work in positions of high stress that have the potential to be scrutinised by the IOPC 30 years later! Bringing in ex military intelligence officers is not the answer - they work in a different arena and have a different skill set. The Detective role is an essential part of the force and should remain so with clear career paths in and out. The role should be rewarding and have the potential to develop the individual. The best senior and chief officers I have seen over 40+ years have had a career with a balance of detective and uniformed roles All the old fashioned allowances are not the answer and there should not be big pay differential with other roles - thanks again the Labour government and Tom W for the ridiculous and damaging pay reforms of SPPs and bonuses and others - they did not work and they split the workforce. The NPCC and the APCC should engage directly with the Federation and the Association, work with this report and take meaningful and fair proposals to the Home Office and explain why we are in this situation, There never was a shortage of officers wanting to be detectives until all these reforms.

Anony.... (04/11/21 @ 13:50)

Yup, most of the officers on the scheme wise up and realise CID is not the place to go. So they changed it, forcing them to be a DC or quit. As above alot of the DC's are so inexperienced that you call them for advice and they have no idea. It's laughable if it wasn't reality. The paperwork is beyond comprehension and they investigate and waste time looking at jobs that will clearly never go anywhere.

Anony.... (04/11/21 @ 13:54)

The thing that gets me with this is that garble on about cybercrime and complex jobs. Yet (and coming from an insurance background) the IT is woeful in comparison. Honestly the amount of hours lost just uploading a simple form, or doing redactions is ludicrous. The job would be alot easier if they just listened and made efficiency the priority, but it doesn't happen and clearly never will.

Softly Softly (04/11/21 @ 16:02)

Take a leaf out of the Sussex Police book and recruit 'fast track detectives' most out of university to tackle the courge of what Sussex PCC calls 'cyber crime, aka complaints about receiving bad comments on social media posts. Doubt any would be able to detect the skin on a rice pudding, let alone tackle 'real' crime.

Softly Softly (04/11/21 @ 16:04)

@Softly Softly TYPO: courge - scourge

London (04/11/21 @ 22:34)

The thing is, OT shouldn't really exist to the level it does in the police. There should be enough staff to deal with a properly managed workload. But there aren't and it isn't. I do agree, however, that increased pay (which should be a thing) is only part of the puzzle. One thing I have noticed - particularly from the East London inquest in progress right now - is that there is far too much reliance on junior staff (Constables and Sergeants). It feels like the moment one reaches DI level, investigative responsibility falls away... that needs reversing. More investigative leadership needed, not just paper pushers.

Jensen2021 (04/11/21 @ 23:47)

I second that. An incredible amount of duplication and constant changing of what CPS want from police, so you feel like you don’t know what you’re doing! An incredible amount of redaction too which can take hours. Workload is an issue, but a decent amount of streamlining would save time, money and stress

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